A good marriage is hard work—there’s no sugar-coating it—and Matt and Cameron Fradd say their 18-year union is no exception.
What makes them stand out is their willingness to share the struggles and joys of their marriage with other Catholic couples.
Australian-born Matt is a public speaker, author and host of the popular podcast Pints with Aquinas. He met his American wife Cameron, a former missionary and current host of the marriage-focused podcast Among the Lilies, when they were both 22.
Matt was contemplating joining the priesthood at the time, but he felt God was guiding him to be with Cameron instead. So he packed up his belongings and headed to her home state of Texas.
Reflecting on their decision to marry just a month later, Matt says, ‘I love that we just launched into it’.
Speaking recently at a Knights of the Southern Cross ‘God and Beer’ event at Australian Catholic University’s Melbourne campus, he said, ‘We often say that if we waited until we were ready to be married, we may have got married five years ago.’
‘I’m thrilled that we got to sort of grow up together.’
Their decision to wait to have sex until after they had married was also a significant part of their journey, and one based a mutual understanding that they were each ‘worth waiting for’.
The early days of their marriage were shaped by the support of friends and other couples with the kind of relationship they aspired to. According to Cameron, they would look at their young married friends and say, ‘Okay, they have marriages like we want, and this is what we’re going to do to try to get a marriage like theirs.’
Nevertheless, the Fradds faced their share of challenges early on.
Reflecting on the struggles he had on becoming a father, Matt said he felt pressure to live up to an idealised version of family life. It took years before he could stop comparing his own family with his perceptions of other people’s.
Matt described how he and Cameron fell into patterns that worked initially but were not ultimately sustainable. He admitted he had come to the marriage with a tendency to look to someone else to make things better, while Cameron was the sort of person who felt it was her role to make sure everyone was okay.
I just think our marriage has been better than it’s ever been.
Comparing the groove of their marriage to Birkenstock sandals that mould to the shape of your feet, he said, ‘It worked until it didn’t. And I think that’s something that a lot of marriages are probably going to have to experience, no matter what it is—the kind of dysfunctional ways in relating.’
Matt said that despite the challenges and missteps, he wanted to step into his role as a husband, which meant learning to fight for Cameron and ‘love her well’.
He felt that Cameron was receptive to the changes in him, which strengthened their bond.
‘It’s been really beautiful to see, like I just think our marriage has been better than it’s ever been.’
Cameron, in the meantime, was undergoing her own journey of healing, particularly after a traumatic miscarriage and illness.
She emphasised the importance of vulnerability in marriage, using the analogy of Jesus’ loving response to the doubts of St Thomas, when Jesus showed Thomas his wounds and invited him to touch them.
‘In marriage, you’re like: if you want to hurt me, this is where you’d hurt me,’ Cameron said. ‘It’s hard, because they may hurt you, and it’s gonna hurt so bad, but by exposing the wound, they can then help heal you.’
The Fradds talked about the importance of communicating openly and honestly with each other, and seeking forgiveness when they hurt each other.
Cameron said it was only in hindsight that they realised they were not great communicators in the first stages of their marriage.
‘It’s important to communicate with each other, so when you do mess up—because you will—you can go to your spouse and ask forgiveness, like saying the words, “I am so sorry that I did this to hurt you. Please forgive me.“ ‘
Matt also highlighted the need to prioritise God above all else, even in marriage.
‘There are times that I look to [Cameron] when I should be looking to God,’ he admitted. ‘I think it’s like if you turn to the person next to you and cling to them for dear life, [saying] “Make things well”, they can’t, actually. No one can.’
Faith has played a central role in their parenting, as well as in their marriage. The Fradds have open conversations with their children about faith and values, and allow them autonomy in their own spiritual awakenings.
Two half people don’t make a whole marriage; two whole people make a whole marriage.
Cameron says being around other families with the same morals as theirs was important, as was finding a parish where they fit—even if it was some distance away.
Their advice for couples, whether dating or married, is rooted in faith, vulnerability and a willingness to work on themselves individually. ‘Two half people don’t make a whole marriage; two whole people make a whole marriage,’ said Cameron. ‘So I need to be getting my worth and dignity from the Lord, [and Matt] needs to be doing the same.
‘And then our marriage can be really good and strong.’
Banner image: Cameron and Matt Fradd share stories about their marriage at ACU’s Melbourne campus on 6 February 2025.
All photos by Andrew Vaccaro, courtesy of the Knights of the Southern Cross.
